DarkLiberator : Really neat to see. Supporters were outside the legislature for hours in the rain this morning calling for it to pass.
Fangmeyer : This is truly a milestone in my country’s history. And it’s worth mentioning that today is also the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia.I’m fuckin’ proud to be Taiwanese!
Immediate_Gas : Congrats from the other side of the Taiwan strait.
MyTime2Shine : It’s actually the Taiwan gay now
mrshobutt : Congrats!!!I was at the Pride festival in Tokyo a while ago and there was a booth from Taiwan with super nice people who came to support LGBTQ rights in Japan.I’m so glad you guys got the rights you deserve
mrshobutt : I truly wish and think you guys will get there! I know I can’t do much as a foreign resident but know that I’ll always support you guys!
dumdumdududum : As someone from Japan, I can’t wait for My country to legalize Gay marriage!!!
Pennwisedom : It’s still important to note that a number of localities are getting there and that laws are being put forward at the prefectural level now
catonsteroids : Yeah, I’m Taiwanese-American and people there tend to be very accepting, regardless if you’re gay or if you’re just a foreigner living/visiting there. Of course, Taipei overall is a lot more “progressive” (I says this as in terms of being more liberal-minded BUT that’s also the area that’s likely to vote “blue” (pro-unification/status quo) instead of “green” (pro-independence).) than southern Taiwan but overall it’s a friendly place where you’re welcomed no matter who you are and it’s a relatively safe place to live. Taiwanese politics is weird and far more complicated than just everyone wanting to unify with China in its current state and declaring independence from mainland China.
cabaran : congratulations. as someone from a third world homophobic shit hole, when i saw the fb comments on the news my country reported, i wish i could snap all those people away.
pridEAccomplishment_ : Hey it’s okay. I live in an EU country and even we have people like those. Hell, one of my university teachers constantly makes homophobic jokes.
fezzuk : Being British and having that kinda imperialism guilt that comes with it, Hong Kong is one of those weird situations where you think “if only”.Been a few times and the culture is so close to British for somewhere in Asia, spent my nights hanging around in pubs and playing darts with old men like I would do in small pubs out in the English countryside.Incredibly people, proud, funny loving.Ideally there would have been more safe guards to ensure HK independence after the handover, it’s such a sad joke.
Rusty_Shakalford : I mean, legally they could try to make an argument that their contract was with the Qing dynasty and not the Communist Party of China, but yeah, realpolitik would have shut that down real quick.
cometssaywhoosh : I dont think the UK really had a choice…any chance for the British to try to throw in a last second measure that vaguely seemed Hong Kong had some sort of independence would’ve had China throwing a hissy fit.Granted, the world would’ve been upset, but what could the UK do? I remember it was the Chinese leader that vaguely threatened your prime minister at the time that if there wasn’t a smooth handover there could be Chinese tanks rolling into Hong Kong…
onlyspeaksiniambs : Ccp policy seems to say anywhere near China is China
tristan-chord : Fun fact, some of the legal documents of the hundred-year lease are in Taipei. So… Technically they can return Hong Kong to join Taiwan. But I’m sure that’ll just guarantee a Sino-British war.
SmokeMeAKipper888 : You guys will have your sovereignty taken away very soon…… all decisions will be made from Beijing
Highscooldays : Back in the days when you guys were going to through the process us Australians weren’t in process and we were envious of you guys, but eventually we made possible. Now you guys made it. We’re so happy for you guys.
andersonchuang : 台灣讚👍
JustinYogaChen : Today is also the 10th initial date of: MINECRAFT!Proud to be a Taiwanese also.
ulfw : So proud of you guys. Was at Taipei Pride the last two years to support. Happy you made it happen!
imaginesketch : Taiwanese, too.Yeah it’s really great to have this now considering all the mess we are in.
hippopig : When I visited – I noticed the bathrooms were gender neutral (in a university I worked in) – so I was surprised to hear gay marriage wasn’t legal.Cool 🙂
Scbadiver : Its about time the world recognize Taiwan as an independent country.
YZJay : Politically and economically it would be suicide. The island lost any hope of international recognition after it lost the seat in the UN to the mainland.
Anivair : Not necessarily. China’s not going to engage in mutually assured economic destruction. If the rest of the world recognizes Taiwan, China will have no choice but to deal with them on those terms. They need us every bit as much as we need them
chaoism : China won’t let Taiwan be independent for more reasons than saving face. Regions like Tibet and some part in South also want to break from China. Imagine if China actually let taiwan do this, these regions will want to follow.
GodstapsGodzingod : Westerners don’t understand just how important the concept of 面子 or “face” is in Chinese culture. If they did, they’d understand why China will never ever let Taiwan be independent nor would they ever back down from the Trump trade war.
big_whistler : It’s not worth enough to the rest of the world to risk it. China doesn’t have to fire nukes or invade, they can just hurt countries (including Taiwan) with tariffs and depriving them of trade.In its current state, Taiwan has autonomy but just has to not yell too loud about it. It’s better than what China might do to it.
Eclipsed830 : Then the Chinese should figure out a way to make it work without losing face, cause Taiwan isn’t theirs.
Eclipsed830 : Yup. Chinese Communist Party never had any control over the island. You’d have to go back to pre-Japan era, and even then no dynasty has ever controlled the entire island. If you look at maps from the 1880’s, most will include a “Chinese border” that splits the island in half.
Mysterions : And the historical reality is that Taiwan was only ever Incorporated into China for a very short amount of time too. They can’t legitimately claim that there’s a long standing historical relationship.
Mysterions : And it’s not even until the 17th century at the earliest that there are even Chinese people on the island. If China’s claim is “historical control” then the Dutch or Portuguese have a stronger claim than China does.
Kaledomo : China will never ever let Taiwan be independentIt’s not a permission they can grant. This isn’t Catalonia, Taiwan is already independent, literally. Based on reality.
GodstapsGodzingod : The way to not lose face is to never let Taiwan be truly sovereign. The century of humiliation is still present in the mindset of China.
GodstapsGodzingod : It is de facto independent which is the way mainland China prefers it right now. But Taiwan cannot outright declare it officially nor will any UN country recognize the independence officially.
emanresu_nwonknu : We understand it. Hell, it’s the prime animating force behind all of Trump’s actions.
cliu91 : That’s not how it works.Fucking with the second biggest economy to recognize a country and commit economic suicide? The only one that can go to a trade war with China is the US. Everyone else would lose horribly.
Any-sao : Nor does most of the world. A country can have diplomatic relations with Taiwan or China, and not both. Most countries choose China.More on this.
Fanta69Forever : It’s all about the money. China has a massive consumer market and a lot of their bullying tactics come from this. Just look at what they’ve been doing with the airlines, or any singers or celebs that dare to suggest Taiwan is independent. Its utter madness, I mean they have their own passports, economy, democratic system. Even the language is separating.
R0ede : China are being pricks about it for sure. But as long as Taiwan still claim to be the government of all of China and doesn’t declare independence, they are not going to be recognized as a country. It doesn’t make sense to recognize two governments of the exact same area, and the CCP has controlled mainland China for 70 years, making them the only logical government of that area.
Leif-Erikson94 : The thing is, Taiwan already is an independent nation, so they don’t have to declare anything. Mainland China also has stated that they will invade Taiwan, if they ever make any moves that could be seen as a declaration of independence by Mainland China. This may even include dropping the claims on the mainland.Furthermore, Taiwan has stated multiple times already that they wish to coexist alongside China, but as long as the CCP isn’t willing to go back on its One-China-Policy, this conflict isn’t going to be resolved.China isn’t going to gain anything from conquering Taiwan anyway, nor is Taiwans existence hurting China economically.In the end, it’s all about Chinas Ego. They think that recognizing Taiwan is basically admitting defeat in the civil war, which is technically still ongoing.
GodstapsGodzingod : Taiwan is not a single entity. They have politicians hat are more in favor of closer mainland ties and politicians that want to outright declare independence.You are right that it is about ego. Face is the most important principle for Chinese people and the Chinese are nothing if not proud. It is not about money.
Fanta69Forever : Interesting, that’s the first I’ve heard of Taiwan claiming to be governing all of China. I assumed they haven’t outright declared independence because China have threatened to take over by force if they do.
Maitai_Haier : China also threatens them if they change their constitution to give up the claim to mainland China.
R0ede : Yes that is also true. Unfortunately that makes it a stalemate since they are afraid of declaring independence and other countries have no interest in declaring their support before they express wanting independence.
GodstapsGodzingod : Taiwan is officially the Republic of China. They claim the mainland, and also claim the disputed islands that China and Japan fight over. They also have claims to random Vietnamese islands. The status quo exists because they do not declare themselves as an independent Taiwan. The CCP can ignore them by claiming the island and treating the government there as illegitimate.
RebelliousPlatypus : The Nationalist Chinese fled their after they lost the civil war, they still claim the mainland as such.
justanotherreddituse : It’s economic suicide to recognize Taiwan 🙁
cgc402 : In Korea, a Taiwanese member in a Kpop group waved a prop Taiwanese flag during a show program – it wasn’t even a political move, the girls were just waving the flags of their country to show where they were from or something like that.China went apeshit and she had to apologize for waving her own country’s flag.I’m sure there’s more nuanced detail in this brouhaha, but as a non-Chinese it just seemed so crazy.
R0ede : Well depends on the situation. If both the US and The EU were to recognize Taiwan, it would be just as much an economic suicide for China to cut ties with them.
PmMeCuteLolis : As a Taiwanese I hope Taiwan never declare independence themselves. That would just create a lot of problems with China just for being an “independent country” . Imo it’s fine as it is today, Taiwanese people are free to do what they want , and have their own government. It’s just technicalities that doesn’t need to be changed
GloriousGlory : Because China wants to keep it that way. They literally threaten war when the idea of Taiwan abandoning the ‘One-China policy’ is brought up.
lizongyang : easier said than done.
actual_wookiee_AMA : They should start by actually declaring themselves as independent as Taiwan.They still call themselves the Republic of China and claim the entirety of the mainland. Recognizing them would mean you also recognize their claims and therefore unrecognize the People’s Republic of China.
DarkLiberator : That would start a war. For now things are sticking with the status quo (basically quasi-independence).
nostril_extension : quasi-independenceCould you elborate on this more? AFAIK Taiwan has no real relationship with China as it doesn’t follow it’s laws and China has no vote in anything Taiwan does or am I missing something? Taiwan is practically independant but on paper it isn’t?
SafetyNoodle : Taiwan is completely politically independent from the PRC and always has been. Taiwan was taken over by the fleeing ROC dictatorship (better than the PRC dictatorship, but a dictatorship nonetheless) and continued to claim all former ROC territories. After gaining democracy Taiwan’s leadership basically stopped actually claiming these places but the official policy can’t be changed because of military threats from the Mainland.TLDR China has no sovereign power in Taiwan but being the major power in the region they can still bully her.
EnoughPM2020 : It is fair to argue that it’s been a long time coming. Congratulations to Taiwan for making this historical step. As u/Fangmayer said, May 17th is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia, which makes Taiwan’s legalization of same sex marriage a splendid present for everyone fighting against hate and prejudice against LGBT people, in Taiwan and Around the World.In 2017, Taiwan constitutional court ruled that same-sex couples had the right to legally marry. The parliament (legislative Yuan, aka the Legislative Assembly) was given a two-year deadline and was required to pass the changes by 24 May 2019. The court said that “disallowing two persons of the same sex to marry, for the sake of safeguarding basic ethical orders” constituted a “different treatment” with “no rational basis”, and that “is incompatible with the spirit and meaning of the right to equality” as proclaimed and enshrined in the Constitution of Taiwan.The LGBT community hopes legislators will in
Undetermined465 : So 73% voted against it in a referendum but parliament passed it anyway. Interesting decision. Although I guess most people won’t care as it won’t affect them in any way.
IAmBlueTW : 73 percent voted against legalizing same seX marriage via “amendment of the civil law”. Another item on the referendum was allowing same sex marriage via a separate law, which was also passed by abt 60ish percent.
Ofeliakat : The biggest lesson learned from this referendum is that topics pertaining to human rights (especially those of minority groups) should never be put up for a referendum in the first place. I believe Taiwan’s referendum law was amended to correct this following the disaster of an election on Nov. 24, 2018. It was infuriating how many people cast their votes without having read the text on the referendum ballots at that time. Sometimes the masses just can’t be trusted to do the right thing….
Undetermined465 : The comment says “61.12% voted for the option of “Protecting rights of same-sex couples outside of the Civil Code”.”That seems to mean that same sex couples would have the same legal status as different sex couples. Which is different from same sex marriage.For example, the UK in 2004 made a law giving same sex partnerships the same rights as married couples. That was not same sex marriage, which came in 10 years later in 2014.
Arckai : I voted during this and I can inform you that the wordings for all subjects are worded very poorly, misleading, and out of context.For example, one of the questions was: “do you think marriage is between a man and a woman?”This is downright misleading if you didn’t know the topic was about same sex marriage!The particular vote you are referring to “Protecting rights of same-sex couples outside of civil law” is a joke. The localization of this in English would look something more akin to this: “Do you think we should establish SPECIAL LAWS for same sex couples”Again, misleading as many voters would think that this is in favor of same sex couples, while it isn’t exactly what they want.My mum thought that voting for it is better due to not having fully understood what it meant.Just saying, a lot of shady stuff with the vote and it’s laughable how bad it is.
hankcklo : The referendum result only restricted marriage to be between a man and a woman under the “Civil Code”. But according to our constitutional court ruling, same gender couples should have the right to get married. Therefore instead of altering the Civil Code, the parliament passed the special law to legalize same gender marriage.Legalizing same gender marriage is a huge step forward for us Taiwanese people, but the referendum result did show that there is still much work ahead for same gender couples to gain approval among the society. We still need to keep on fighting!